In this week’s episode, we have an in-depth conversation with pharmacist Dr. Jessica Louie and discuss the value of finding your why. Dr. Louie shares with us her personal story of burnout and her journey that led her to create the Burnout Doctor Method.

Connect with our guest, Dr. Jessica Louie:
Website: https://drjessicalouie.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DrJessicaLouie
The Burnout Doctor Podcast: https://drjessicalouie.com/podcast/

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Dr. JB: Ever wish for a safe place to have conversations that need to be had? A place where you could say the things that need to be said? Well, welcome to Hope4Med. This is Hope4Med, med. New day for med, med. For us, by us, and just for us, this is Hope4Med, med. This is Hope4Med, med. New day for med, med. For us, by us, and just for us. This is Hope4Med, med.

[00:00:38] Welcome, everyone back to the Hope4Med podcast, this is me, Dr. JB, and today’s featured guest is Dr. Jessica Louie. She is a critical care pharmacist working in California. Welcome, Dr. Louie!

[00:00:53] Dr. Jessica Louie: Thank you for having me today.

[00:00:56] Dr. JB: So let us start from the very beginning. When did you decide that you wanted to become a pharmacist?

[00:01:05] Dr. Jessica Louie: That’s a great question. I actually was looking into the pharmacy profession back in ninth grade of high school. I come from a family, a Chinese American family, and my parents really encouraged my sister and I to choose a profession early on in high school so we could research different universities that had that career path, so that we were set up to go to grad school if we needed to from the university. And I found it in, uh, my guidance counselor’s office, a pamphlet on pharmacy. My mom had read an article in a magazine about the profession and it really fit well within my skillset and my interests. My sister actually was interested in going into the medical field and pursuing her doctorate in medicine, and that wasn’t the path for me, and I found that pharmacy, it was a great option early on. And then I went into shadowing pharmacists in high school before deciding that that was for me.

[00:02:04] Dr. JB: So, after completing your education in pharmacy, what happened next?

[00:02:12] Dr. Jessica Louie: So, when I was researching pharmacy back then there was less schools available. I lived in Wisconsin and I came out to University of Southern California here in Los Angeles for my undergraduate and then my pharmacy degree, and I graduated back in 2013 with my Doctor of Pharmacy, then I pursued a two-year residency. So, residency in pharmacy is optional, um, but it was something that I really was interested in, and I matched at my number one program at the University of Utah healthcare system, and I completed my PGY-1 in pharmacy practice and then my PGY-2 in critical care, and then I came back to Los Angeles as an assistant professor.

[00:02:52] Dr. JB: What made you decide to choose critical care?

[00:02:54] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, so, during pharmacy school, we have what’s considered an intern pharmacist license, it’s something that we get right away and you work as an intern pharmacist during your three or four years in pharmacy school to get that knowledge and build up credits for hours to become licensed. So, I actually worked at USC’s private hospital, uh, it’s a tertiary quaternary hospital, it has a lot of ICU types of patients, and I was really interested when I went into residency. Initially, I was interested in critical care, I was interested in solid organ transplant, and finally cystic fibrosis. So, some pretty specialty types of fields, and then critical care, which is a little bit more broad.

[00:03:36] So, my residency program at University of Utah had all three options to stay on as a specialist for PGY-2 residency, and I realized, you know, during my first couple of months in my first year, that critical care and ICU was what I wanted to pursue and I stayed on for my second year of training so that I got that experience.

[00:03:57] Dr. JB: You left Utah and then move straight to Cali?

[00:04:00] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, so I came back to Los Angeles and there were some new schools of pharmacies opening up in California at the time looking for critical care pharmacists who had a teaching and education type of interest, and I decided to pursue that, uh, and took a job as an assistant professor at West Coast University School of Pharmacy here in Los Angeles.

[00:04:24] Dr. JB: Awesome. And that’s where you’re currently still working?

[00:04:27] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yes, I am now an associate professor at the School of Pharmacy, and, uh, it’s been great educating the next generation of pharmacists.

[00:04:35] Dr. JB: How was that transition from books to real life, was it what you expected?

[00:04:43] Dr. Jessica Louie: I would say that in general, you know, graduate school and residency, I think a lot of hands-on training is very important. So, yes, you can do a lot of book studying, but I think the hands-on experience either through intern pharmacist work, shadowing, residency, fellowships, is really important and really where you grow a lot as a clinician.

[00:05:07] Dr. JB: And so because you did that shadowing before you knew what to expect in your day-to-day in the ICU?

[00:05:14] Dr. Jessica Louie: I would say, I somewhat knew what to expect, but I think that when I look back on that experience and how I ended up burning out, um, early on in my career, I realized that I didn’t exactly know the day-to-day, and the reminder that, you know, healthcare is great and our healthcare system never closes, you know, hospitals are open twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, and working within one means that your schedules will be very variable, uh, including holidays, weekends, nights, all these different schedules, and you know, when you’re actually living that life, it can be very different than you thought it was going to be.

[00:05:55] Dr. JB: Tell me more about your burnout story.

[00:05:58] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, so, um, I graduated in 2013 and I actually started burning out in 2014 at the end of my PGY-2 in critical care, and then early on in 2015 in my academia role. And at the time, I honestly didn’t know it was burnout because no one in healthcare was really talking about it, people weren’t really open about sharing their stories then, and, uh, during that time I was basically spending more time in the hospital or at work, than I was spending in my own home. I took a lot of work home with me as well, and I was really feeling frustrated and exhausted all the time and, you know, yeah a lot of us cope with frustration or cope with stress in some way, personally, I coped with it by shopping a lot. I would get that quick dopamine hit of shopping for more clothing or home decor, and then it would fade, and then I would be on to the next dopamine hit and shopping again to try to cope with everything. And I realized, you know, through some life events that life can be really short and this is not really bringing me a lot of joy. Um, I was living hundreds, thousands of miles away from a lot of family members and loved ones, and I decided I needed a wake up call. So, that’s when I started realizing that, you know, it could have turned into burnout, and, um, what really saved me was finding the KonMari method, de-cluttering and simplifying my life.

[00:07:25] Dr. JB: Interesting, what is the KonMari method?

[00:07:29] Dr. Jessica Louie: So the KonMari method, if anyone has heard of Marie Kondo, uh, she has a couple books and her Netflix series, but basically it’s about addressing physical clutter in your life. And I think that, you know, clutter does play a role in our stress levels and you know, those levels that can turn into burnout, and that’s what really helped me at the beginning stages because I had been accumulating a lot of physical clutter in my life by shopping in coping with my burnout.

[00:07:56] So I think that a lot of times we start with physical clutter because it’s visible, it’s very rewarding when we let go of clothing that doesn’t make us feel confident, or we surround ourselves with less distractions around our desk, but then it goes beyond that. So, I like to think of three other types of clutter, the mental, emotional, and spiritual clutter in our lives, and really being able to apply simplifying to those areas. Basically, you can simplify your calendar and just keep going with how you simplify, how you address relationships, health, financial health, all those different types of things.

[00:08:34] Dr. JB: What would be an example of owning your time if you’re working, say, in the hospital and your schedule keeps flip-flopping.

[00:08:44] Dr. Jessica Louie: So, I think that there’s important to acknowledge that there are some things within our control and some things are not. And sometimes that means that that schedule we have in healthcare, because there’s different coverage and different team members that have different specialties, and yes, your schedule may not be within your control, but then the other hours of the day are. And that means that when we look at our calendars, we can decide what’s bringing us joy that’s on our calendar and what we might want to let go of, or push back to a different season of our life when we do have a little bit more time to focus on that goal or that hobby, either for ourselves or for other members in our family. So, I think that it’s important that we own the time that we do have then in terms of how do you want to spend it? Do you want to spend it focusing on a fitness goal? Do you want to spend it focusing on relationships and family? Do you want to focus on financial health and diversifying income? You know, it’s very different for every person, um, but we get to decide that, and then we get to set up healthy boundaries to remove distractions that may be interfering with our time.

[00:09:51] So, I think that in general, you know, when we get through the end of our training, you know, I spent nine years training and many in healthcare, just spend several years training to where they want to be, um, there is a realization that life doesn’t look exactly how you thought it would. And yes, it’s part of that transition phase and yes, some of us transitioned very well, um, but in general, burnout is much more likely to happen in transitions in our life, whether that is a career transition or a life transition, you know, housing or family-wise. So I think that it did, it did play a role, um, it didn’t mean that I don’t like ICU, I don’t like critical care, it just means I can use my skillset in different ways to educate or spread joy in a different way.

[00:10:37] Dr. JB: So are you still working in the unit?

[00:10:41] Dr. Jessica Louie: So I don’t work in, uh, I’m not employed by a hospital because I’m employed by the university, but my interest has evolved a little bit and my focus is more on post ICU syndrome, so that recovery phase after you’ve been in the ICU for a prolonged time, uh, that we’ve experienced a lot over the last year, and how you’re going to transition to recover over the next 3-12 months. So, it technically is more transitions of care, uh, ambulatory care type of work,

[00:11:09] Dr. JB: And when did that transition happen?

[00:11:13] Dr. Jessica Louie: So that happened a few years ago. In terms of, you know, the time spent as an educator in the university and the time spent in a clinical setting, um, it varies each year depending on the workload and the team members, so, I started transitioning a couple of years ago.

[00:11:29] Dr. JB: Besides your day-to-day work in the hospital, what else are you doing?

[00:11:36] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, so, um, when I realized that, you know, I felt really alone during my burnout journey and my, my transition, I decided that it was important I started sharing my story more openly about what happened and how I started to recover and reset my burnout. So I had started blogging on different topics, and then decided to start a podcast on burnout, um, which is called The Burnout Doctor Podcast, and a YouTube channel to share, you know, how I went through burnout so if anyone felt alone if they’re experiencing it, they can maybe turn to me for some tips or advice. And I also got certified in the KonMari method, so I went into people’s homes and help them with physical clutter and then started helping them with the other three types of clutter after that. So, basically I created The Burnout Doctor method that walks you through this simple three-step process that you can apply to your own life, um, you know, on your own or with the help of a coach.

[00:12:38] Dr. JB: Going back a little bit. One of the things that you mentioned that I think we should highlight is that your burnout story began when you were in your graduate training.

[00:12:52] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yes.

[00:12:53] Dr. JB: And, I think that’s really an important point, because burnout starts early is one of the arguments that I’ve been making, and Hope4Med’s been making, and it, does start with your health professional training. And it sounds like you had a lot on your plate.

[00:13:11] Dr. Jessica Louie: I did, and I think that it’s important that we realize that it does start early and it’s not a negative part of the training, you know, a part of us or the training. I think it’s important to realize that there were signs where maybe my mentors did say things to me and I brushed them off, you know? And my mentors did see the fatigue and everything and saw that I was pushing myself really hard, but I think that, you know, no matter what, unless there was a big intervention, I probably wouldn’t have changed my approach at that time, because that was the person I was, right?

[00:13:49] Dr. JB: If we delve back into your story of burnout, I understand that it was the hours that you working played a major role in it. Can you tell me a little bit more about what your day-to-day experience was like?

[00:14:04] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah. So I think that– so, I was coming off my second year of residency, I had put a lot of pressure on myself to fit a lot of things into my residency and training program, uh, to finish off that nine-year journey. So, my hours were self-induced I will say, um, so if anyone is listening that is in the field or looking at programs, I always recommend my residency program to others, I think that was a great experience, but I would recommend not piling so much on your plate. So I had about five research projects that year, including a prospective study where I consented patients on that study, and I was just spending a lot of hours after, you know, the typical ICU day from, you know, 5, 6 AM to 3, 4 PM, then staying at the hospital to gather data myself or send stuff to my statistician team, or consent patients.

[00:14:54] Overall, all looking back on it I realized that, you know, I love thinking outside the box and being really innovative and, and being curious to ask a lot of questions, but at the end of the day, I don’t have to take on every single project myself. There is delegation, or there’s, you know, putting it off to when you have a little more time to focus on that. So, that’s what started in my residency then in academia, it was a new school of pharmacy, I took on a lot of roles as course coordinator right away, um, and the transition was very fast in that first month, uh, so I was taking a lot of work home with me and then also trying to publish all of these research projects I had from residency. And, the timeline for publishing it was much longer than my team anticipated, it was almost three years for all of those projects to get published, and there’s just a lot of disappointment, right, in terms of that publishing and the politics behind publishing in major journals. So, I think all that compounded, and then, um, besides that, you know, I was shopping, I was not seeing family, and all those things compound on one another to where you hit kind of rock bottom.

[00:16:03] Dr. JB: And how did you know you had hit rock bottom?

[00:16:07] Dr. Jessica Louie: Um, I think that, you know, all of us probably show different signs. I, I like to say that usually when you start to have resentment in your life, you may be thinking you’re going through burnout or hitting rock bottom, and oftentimes times we take it out on people that we love. So you start– um, I had a lot of anger and frustration at the time and I was taking it out on loved ones that were around me, there was a lot of boundaries being broken down, you know, if you’re a people pleaser or a perfectionist and you’re saying yes to a lot of things. So, I actually had an aunt that died very suddenly, um, in the ICU, and that’s kind of when I hit rock bottom after that and blamed myself for a lot of that story, even though it wasn’t necessarily truthful.

[00:16:52] So, I think it was about two to three months after that event happened that I decided, okay, I need to get help. I definitely recommend people seek out the help that they need, whether, you know, whether that is from a licensed professional, mental health professional, or someone else, starting investing in yourself. Uh, so that’s technically when I started looking at the physical clutter and then looking at other aspects of my life that I needed to simplify, I needed to finding harmony of how work basically aligns into our life. I like to call it work-life alignment, work-life integration, um, so that we can remember that work is not our whole life. I think a lot of people in healthcare, including myself, tied my entire identity to my job title, I tied my entire identity to, you know, status and in that type of success in healthcare, and I didn’t have an identity outside of being a critical care pharmacist or a professor. I think that it’s important, you know, if you feel that way, especially if you’re young adults are going through career transitions, that you step back and think about, you know, how do you want to live your life as a, as a human being, you know, human being first, um, and our identity is not tied to our job.

[00:18:04] Dr. JB: Oh, that’s such a key, key point because it’s so true that so many of us are defined by what we do, not by who we are.

[00:18:14] Dr. Jessica Louie: Exactly. Exactly. You know, when I was going through that transition, you know, I found in Simon Sinek, if anyone’s heard of Simon Sinek, he’s a wonderful author on the Start With Why type of philosophy, and that’s something that really helped me as well in the transition of going back, and going back to basics of, you know, why do I wake up in the morning? What is my “why,” what is my bigger purpose in life? And, you know, I think a lot of us have gone through life and inherently kind of know some of that, but maybe have never written it down and written down very clearly where you can say it out loud, and write it down each and every day, and have this bigger purpose, um, and that was a good exercise for me to do as well in my transition.

[00:18:59] Dr. JB: Okay. Do you still engage in this exercise today?

[00:19:03] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, definitely. So that’s technically, you know, my why statement is really helping people find this confidence, feeling joyful and intentionalized, uh, because we all have unique skillsets to add to this world and bring meaning to this world and, you know, that’s my “why” statement. And, you know, the clarify step is technically my first step in The Burnout Doctor method of really getting clear of what you want, you know, how you want to spend your day to day, because when we are really clear about that, then we can make decisions easier of when someone offers us a project or a job or something else happens in our life, we can weigh that decision against our “why” and our values and see if it aligns.

[00:19:44] Dr. JB: So, when during your training, do you think this whole stepping back and discovering your why could have been applied?

[00:19:55] Dr. Jessica Louie: So I think the earlier the better, um, looking back on my own journey, I think that it would have been important even before I went to graduate school, that pharmacy school experience, because looking back, I likely had burnout in pharmacy school as a student as well. You know, those really high levels of stress, chronic stress that led into burnout, and a lot of students, I think also have at least some type of stress in their life, and I think clarifying that before you ever go into the career or as early as possible is important. And then checking in on it at each stage, you know, each stage in the training process, because many of us in healthcare go through a lot of different training processes and, and thinking about, you know, why you want to do this and what is your end goal, can really help you reverse engineer how you’re going to get there. And, you know, I think it’s also important to acknowledge that you may change your mind during the process, right? If you go, if you go through your “why” and your values and you change your mind that this isn’t a good fit, I think it’s important to realize that as early as possible, because unfortunately, um, if you go through the whole process and realize at the end, unfortunately, we do lose a lot of very well-trained healthcare professionals who realized that it’s not a good fit or they’d like to do something else, and the earlier the better.

[00:21:14] Dr. JB: I agree with you 100% with everything you just said , it’s important to, to think about what your “why” is at every stage and, and be open to change if need be. If you go down one path or one specialty and you’re like, “ah, I don’t think I really like critical care,” well, then be open to the transition to something that you may like better. So that’s extremely, extremely important. And it’s good to know that you currently engage in that practice of reflecting on your “why,” is this a daily practice for you, or how frequently do you sit back and reflect?

[00:21:50] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, honestly, it is a daily practice, I start that with my affirmations each morning– and if you don’t do any affirmations, I think that it’s important to consider doing it, you know, just writing down one sentence each day that you’re going to live by– and I write down my “why” and then I write down about eight affirmations each day. And those affirmations change throughout the year as, you know, life changes, um, but it’s bringing that positivity into our life and reminding us, you know, why we’re here and how we’re making a difference.

[00:22:22] Dr. JB: And so currently, what does your day-to-day look like?

[00:22:30] Dr. Jessica Louie: So, right now, um, it’s a little bit unusual because we are still in the virtual setting with the university as we transition back to potentially a different schedule in fall. For the past year, I’ve worked from home, uh, and taught virtually for the university and the pharmacy students, so that was a transition for everyone, but I had previously been coaching virtually for burnout clients or simplifying clients, so it was a pretty easy transition for me, and it was wonderful to still be able to connect with people. And that’s why I really like reaching beyond that classroom setting because we can really reach beyond the United States and even the world to share our stories and our advice. So, that’s usually my day-to-day, it’s spent on, you know, different meetings for the university, for different committees, for students, and then the teaching is done, um, based on the schedule. previously, you know, early on in my business, I used to do a lot of coaching at evenings and on weekends, and some of that has transitioned now to do more keynote speaking, virtually or do more online courses so people can take it at their own pace.

[00:23:40] Dr. JB: Hmm. And so have you been able to incorporate programs focused on burnout and work-life balance with the students you teach?

[00:23:54] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, I have, so I bring that into the teaching environment and then we have additional programming and workshops for students who are interested. I think that the tough part sometimes is, um, for students to realize that they, they want to participate, because we’re not, we can’t force things on other people, just like we can’t force someone to declutter or simplify their life, they, they need to be inspired to do it themselves, and sometimes in the early process, you know, graduate school or residency training, you may not be interested in learning about it because you don’t think it will happen to you. So, there is a combination of being willing to invest in yourself and put in the time and effort to learn about these techniques, because when you’re not going through it, um, you may not be as interested.

[00:24:44] Dr. JB: But I do think having these conversations will help people reflect and think, “oh, I kind of feel the way that Dr. Louie felt, oh, I do have a lot on my plate, and I am really stressed, and maybe this isn’t normal, maybe this isn’t okay.”

[00:25:04] Dr. Jessica Louie: Right. I definitely hope that people can learn from it and that’s why, you know, your podcast is so impactful in terms of being able to share stories so that people can learn from our experiences and maybe improve their own lives.

[00:25:19] Dr. JB: And one of the things that people find so difficult is this balance between their work life and their home life, and it seems like you’ve been really focusing on that area in your own personal life to make that a little bit better. So can you walk me through how you’ve done that?

[00:25:37] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yes, definitely. So, um, I like to think of it as work-life alignment and I think that it’s important to remember that work is not your whole life, and I like to call it the weekly joy check where we check in in 10 different pillars of our life. You can definitely come up with what pillars that work best for you, but I think about, you know, if any one of these pillars feels misaligned, it can be really difficult to know where to focus our time and our energy on. So work is obviously one of the pillars, but the other nine pillars, I think about are health, our mental, emotional health, our family, our friends, our partner, our love, our experiences, our learning, our spiritual health, and then our financial health. And, um, I check in on each of those areas once a week, rate myself on how I feel in them and then any areas that are getting a little bit lower, uh, in the ratings, I set a goal in them. So usually it’s only one or two areas where we might feel misaligned in, you know, for example, maybe you forgot to a return, a phone call from a friend from last week because you were at, at work or something, um, and this week you want to set a goal to make sure that you schedule time to catch up, you know, either go out for coffee, catch up on the phone, and that could be something that you schedule in your calendar in the next couple of weeks. It could be as simple as that, it could be that you wanted to take on a new hobby, you know, an experience or learning-wise, um, and you wanted to schedule in some time for it, you know, over the past year, my partner and I have played tennis so it’s scheduling that time in our calendar and feeling really aligned in that area then. And you know, we’re not going to schedule a goal in all 10 areas of that, but it’s just making sure that we’re realizing that it’s not just work and, and personal life, there are multiple factors within each of our own lives, um, and finding joy in each of those areas in different ways, I think is really important.

[00:27:37] Dr. JB: And is this something that you engage with your partner or is this an individual reflection?

[00:27:44] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah. So I would, I do recommend starting individually, doing that yourself, and then I actually do engage in a weekly, we call it our weekly marriage journal with my partner and, uh, we ask each other six questions each week about, you know, what has brought each other joy, if there’s any conflict that is arisen, working through that from the previous week and thinking about how we can help each other in the upcoming week. So I do think that, some people call it like a marriage check-in or, I’ve in the past called it like a simplify summit, but doing that weekly, I think is really helpful. And, you know, some people would prefer to maybe do it once a month, but it does help to be on the same page, and then also plan our calendars so they are in sync, and we know food-wise, what’s happening. Work-wise, what are the hours? Financial-wise, all those good things that are good to stay transparent on.

[00:28:36] Dr. JB: And so if you were to reflect back. On, when you first started and you’re working in the critical care unit and bringing back work with you home, is there anything like now that you are using these various methods that you could have applied back then, to people who still find themselves in the situation you used to be in?

[00:29:00] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yes, definitely. I think that a lot of us, especially maybe like early on in your job, it can be really enticing to bring work home and work extra and say yes to a lot of things, um, and I think that one way we can do that is to address how we communicate with people and set up those healthy boundaries. I like to think of it as the mental clutter in our life, it’s kind of like the digital clutter in our life, and I would basically– one way would be to teach other people how to communicate with me. Right? So if we are bringing work home because there’s a lot of emails to send or there is, you feel like you’re on 24/7 because someone could page you or call you, it’s to set up those healthy boundaries where you teach people, you know, emails for non-emergencies. So you’re going to get a response in 24 or 48 hours. Phone calls are, are for emergencies, so it should be a significant emergency for you to call me, otherwise, it’s teaching other people how to think critically, both team members or family members and, you know, text message might be for emergencies depending on the person. I think this helps make sure that we don’t feel attached to email inboxes all the time, pop up and notifications all the time, and, um, set up some of those boundaries and then as a leader, as a team member, I think it’s important to also realize that we, we can lead by example. So even if you are writing emails at night because you didn’t get to them during the day, scheduling them to send during work hours can be really important so that other people don’t feel like they need to respond to you right away, it’s not urgent, um, and that can help take off the pressure of feeling on all the time.

[00:30:45] Dr. JB: Yeah, because feeling on all the time and not being able to separate yourself from your work and your home really will drive you to, the highway to burnout.

[00:30:55] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yes, definitely. And I mean, technology is great, but it does have some of those downsides and I think that when we feel on all the time because of notifications or social media and things, it’s, it’s time to reset how you want to own your time around those things. And yes, some people may not respond as positively as you would like them to when you start setting out those healthy communication boundaries, but overall I’ve set those up over the, you know, the last five years and I’ve never had someone or a student say that they couldn’t get a hold of me when they needed to.

[00:31:29] Dr. JB: I could, I could see how a student may feel like they can’t set up these healthy boundaries. Do you think that’s possible for students to be able to do that when they’re training?

[00:31:39] Dr. Jessica Louie: I definitely think it is possible for them to set this up in terms of, that means, you know, when there’s organizations or sign ups for health fairs and things, you know, it’s not a first come first basis, so people don’t have to feel that they’re, they have to respond to an email right away. There’s simple things that you can do around that, and then in terms of getting help, there’s usually office hours or time to ask for additional resources, uh, so that you don’t have to get attached to your email by any means all the time.

[00:32:12] Dr. JB: So if my listener wanted to get in touch with you, how could they do so?

[00:32:19] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah, I would love to connect and, you know, honestly the best place is the podcast or on YouTube, depending on what you like to watch. And then my website is my name, drjessicalouie.com, and happy to reach out if you would like to email me, and get in touch and talk.

[00:32:39] Dr. JB: So, Dr. Louie, in closing, do you have any words of advice for my listeners?

[00:32:49] Dr. Jessica Louie: Yeah. So, words of advice would be, honestly, take some time to reflect on that “why,” that value statement, you know, you could set aside 15, 30 minutes, get into like a calm, sanctuary place that you enjoy and, and just write it out with pen and paper. That’s always what I recommend, pen and paper, old school and, and just give yourself some time to reflect of what you want in your life, so that you follow your dreams, and not, you know, your parents or society’s dreams, that they’re your own dreams and it’s gonna be very individual to you. So, invest some time in yourself and reflect.

[00:33:25] Dr. JB: Yeah. Who says a doc can’t rap? D O C T O R J B. The greatest doctor to ever touch the mic, the greatest podcast ever broadcasted or prerecorded. Come learn some, each one, teach one. I’m done.