Episode 69 of the Hope4Med podcast features Dr. Sujana Sunkara, an internist currently practicing addiction medicine and a certified life coach. Dr. Sunkara shares her experience with burnout and questioning her purpose in life, which led her to discover life coaching. She discusses how focusing on her emotional health through journaling and learning self-love helped her find her purpose and feel connected again with her family and patients.

Transcript:
[00:00:00] Dr. JB: Welcome to Hope4Med.

[00:00:04] Hi, welcome back to the Hope4Med podcast. I am your host, Dr. JB and today’s featured guest is Dr. Sujana Sunkara. She is a internist and certified life coach working in Connecticut and currently practicing addiction medicine. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:24] Dr. Sunkara: Thank you, Dr. JB, thank you so much for inviting me as a guest to the wonderful Hope4Med podcast. I’m so excited to be here today. And as I learn about your mission for the podcast, it’s, it’s very inspirational and it’s very hopeful that we can bring back healthcare to what everybody wants it to be.

[00:00:46] Dr. JB: So I love it. And so let us go ahead and start from the beginning, please share with my audience what is your origin story?

[00:00:55] Dr. Sunkara: So, I’m originally from India. I did my medical school back in India and I came here in 2009 to do my residency in internal medicine in Bronx, New York. And after the internal medicine residency, I’ve been a practicing as a primary care physician in Connecticut since 2014. And initially, I was practicing in federally qualified health center as a primary care physician offering my services to underserved areas and very complicated patients, and it has been a very learning– very challenging and great learning experience. And after that, I have a practice close to my home. I couldn’t go direct because of my commute and after two kids, it was a lot. So now I practice very close to my home in Stanford and I’ve been a primary care physician ever since.

[00:01:49] And ever since recently, I’ve been very interested in addiction medicine because of some of my life events, where after a few years, it felt that I had been burning out, taking care of my job and the kids and my parents in India and everything, it was very overwhelming. So that led me towards life coaching and I became certified as a life coach and I help physicians with burnout. I volunteer at a website called physiciancodesupport.com and that also got me interested in addiction medicine as well, because I see that people with mental health issues are very vulnerable and addiction medicine has always been just give medicines and deal with it. And I feel like the underlying issues of addiction have not been dealt with, so I want to bring my expertise as a life coach and my expertise as an internal medicine and addiction medicine physician to the most vulnerable population. So that’s why I’m practicing in addiction medicine right now.

[00:03:00] Dr. JB: So could we talk a little bit more about what you mentioned in terms of your symptoms of feeling burned out, what was going on?

[00:03:08] Dr. Sunkara: So the most important feeling of when I was feeling burnout was there was a decreased satisfaction in my work life and my personal life. That was one of the most important things I felt. And I felt like I wasn’t giving enough to my patients. I had the cynical attitude towards some of my patients, right? I feel like I’m, I couldn’t explain it in the beginning, I was thinking that, okay, it has to do something with the patients, right? And it was also mirroring in my relationship with my kids, with my husband, and with my parents, I felt like I was always angry, frustrated, and I was thinking this is not the way, like there, there has to be something else, right? So that’s what led me to look deeper within myself. And that’s when I started listening to a lot of podcasts and, and that’s how I came across life coaching. And I’m also thankful to this amazing group of physicians, female physicians, on Facebook, which has, which has connected a lot of physicians and who are going through similar things because of all this frustration. And so that’s where I came across life coaching and which helped me recognize that I’m going through burnout and there is something that I can do about it.

[00:04:36] Dr. JB: So these feelings of cynicism that you started experiencing, how, like at what point during your career did you start noticing that, when did it all start?

[00:04:46] Dr. Sunkara: So I graduated in 2013 and I, I came across life coaching seven years later. So, 2020 is when I started learning about life coaching, listening to the podcasts, and that’s when I realized that I’m really stressed out and there’s got to be something more in life. Everybody ha– I think I’ve done everything right in my life, like, I feel like you– and every physician or every healthcare professional or any professional for that matter feels like they’ve done everything right in their life, right? Like after high school, okay there’s college, and then there is masters, if you’re doing it, and then you get married, you have kids, and you get a job and you’re practicing and then you don’t feel like there’s this fulfillment. There’s some sort of void, right? Is this it? Is this my arrival? Like I did everything right up this point, right? Where, where is it? Where’s my Nobel prize or something, right? Why don’t I feel great, right? Like…

[00:05:53] Yeah, that’s when I started questioning this, what is happiness? What is life? What is, what my purpose in life? Even though I’m a physician and I’m still like, this is there has to be something so, yeah. That’s when I started feeling the burnout and looking for solutions, after seven years into clinical practice.

[00:06:16] Dr. JB: So what was your day-to-day experience like that made you start questioning what your purpose in life was?

[00:06:22] Dr. Sunkara: So I think there was something about the way we practice as a primary care. I would, I think I, I attributed it a lot to the EMR that we have. I felt like I am not spending enough time with the patients. I’m spending a lot of time with our electronic medical records. Even at the end of the day, after a long day, I still would rush home, take my kids to their activities and then start charting there, and it would go deep into like 7:00, 8:00 PM, but it had to be done because you don’t get that chance to chart in this, in the office because they need forms to be filled out. They need, there’s so much in primary, the documentation to get their medicines approved, the prior approvals, prior authorizations, and all that, just dealing with that takes your day. And then you come home and do the charting. That was, and then you, you prepared for dinner, and then the kids are young, you prepare their bedtime and it’s, yeah, that’s that kind of that circle of life, I guess, which is, which didn’t feel like that’s my purpose. Like, is this, you know, how much am I helping my patients? What am I doing for my family? Yeah, so all those questions made me question my purpose in life.

[00:07:42] Dr. JB: And then it was rinse and repeat because you go through this, and then you go to sleep, and then you wake up, it’s like Groundhog Day, to redo it all over again.

[00:07:54] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah. Yep. Yep. That’s what made me question it. Yeah.

[00:07:59] Dr. JB: What did you think medicine was going to be like when you first got into it?

[00:08:03] Dr. Sunkara: When I first got into it, I was thinking that, you’re going to help a lot of people, right? And maybe we are making a life-changing decision in the patient’s life, which I am satisfied about and they are grateful about, and I probably did get that feeling sometimes, but somehow I felt like that was not enough. So we’re prescribing the medications, and I see that in some of the challenging population, the numbers, the diabetes is vastly improved according to the numbers, but the patients did not feel that way. And especially even in thyroid disease where the numbers seem to be fine, but the patient doesn’t feel like everything has improved for them. They’re, they’re feeling like they’re still having these joint pains. They still feel like they’re tired all the time. They have this brain fog and they cannot function. And sometimes not having answers to those questions, I felt like very, felt very inadequate, right? And so I wanted to learn everything to help the patient inside out.

[00:09:27] It’s not just medicines, it’s not just the sugar that we’re looking at. So I, I focus, I have learned a lot about nutrition as well in my journey and I, whatever we eat right now is everything is organic, I try to increase my awareness of what we’re eating every minute in my house, whatever I bring my, I do the whole grocery shopping, so that’s what I advocate for my patients too, is that, you are what you eat, you have to treat your body like a temple. You have to treat, you have to be mindful of every single thing that you’re putting in your body, starting from your coffee, milk, like as soon as you wake up, right? So that’s one thing I learned after like many days of research, but yeah, that’s, I wanted to treat the patients inside out and not just worry about the metrics of the insurance system or the patient satisfaction scores, that was not bringing the satisfaction. So that’s what I wanted medicine to look like, I think, to help everybody, like, from inside out.

[00:10:34] Dr. JB: When you mentioned how you felt frustrated when numbers wise, the hemoglobin A1C is getting better, your thyroid level is getting better, but you yourself are not feeling better, but in terms of the amount of time that it would take for you to really be able to try to figure out what this disconnect is, did you find that you actually have that time to really dig deeper with your patients to try to get to the bottom?

[00:11:01] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah, no, that’s– the way our system is designed, and the way that once I understood the way the diseases worked, every disease is multifactorial, it’s not what we’re seeing are only the symptoms. So you can’t, I can’t possibly understand what that patient is going through in his environment, what he’s eating, what he, what his mental health is, because everything plays a role in how you manifest. And I think from that podcast too, that Dr. Harris was saying it was, it was very eye-opening, is that changes happen at a cellular level and we look at it from the external side and which doesn’t match, right? So with our current existing healthcare system, it wasn’t possible to spend that enough time to get to know your patient and connect with your patient. Yeah.

[00:11:53] Dr. JB: So was that what made you look into life coaching, or how did you get connected with life coaching?

[00:12:01] Dr. Sunkara: So, so initially I was looking into nutrition, yoga, meditation, all these things as to learn more about the patients. And my approach was always like, let’s try, if somebody comes with high blood pressure, let’s, let’s try to decrease the salt. Let’s try to have you exercise more, do something, take some other like self care measures like yoga, and then see what happens in your blood pressure. And if after four weeks, it doesn’t go well, then you suggest that this is too long for you to be with this high amount of pressure, so that’s when I would start the medications. So initially I would start looking at nutrition as my learning curve and then I really came across life coaching after all of that, I was feeling like there was some missing piece and the missing piece was as I’m learning everything, as I’m doing everything for my patients, and of course it helped my family too, but I felt emotionally disconnected. I, I’m chasing this next learning, you know, learning stuff, being more, being there more for my patients, I felt, I’m not connected enough to my husband and my family, to my kids, so that’s when I came across like life coaching. I used to listen to podcasts during my commute to work every day and that listening to that made me realize that yes, there is the emotional health also matters, not just the food and your external conditions. Yeah, so that was very enlightening to me where I came across life coaching. Yep.

[00:13:48] Dr. JB: So did you find the parallel between your experiences in your work environment and what was happening at home in terms of not feeling emotionally connected?

[00:14:01] Dr. Sunkara: Yes. I think so. Yeah, because when I was feeling that way, when I was feeling emotionally disconnected, I was doing everything that’s required at work, but at some level I was feeling that I was not a good team player with my medical assistant. Or, like I said before, there was this anger and frustration in me that I wasn’t able to explain. And at work, obviously I would not be angry, right? So I don’t want to be angry, but I felt like I was more withdrawn as a person, so it was showing in my work at a different level. So yeah, it’s in a different way. It’s completely opposite of what I was feeling at work. I was manifesting emotionally in a different way at work where I was withdrawn at work, but at home I wanted to do more but getting frustrated and angry and wanted to be, it was from a need where I wanted to feel connected, but I was doing the opposite.

[00:15:05] So yeah, that’s how life coaching was very helpful in the way that. I started working on myself, my thoughts, my feelings and emotions, that made me more realize that the change cannot become in my five-year-old if I’m angry all the time. So that’s when I do everyday thought journals, that was very initially like for a month or so and I did that, I didn’t feel any difference. I was about to give up, but I kept consistently doing it and I see the difference that yes, it’s, taking charge of your emotional health will mirror in your family.

[00:15:47] Dr. JB: That sounds very empowering.

[00:15:50] Dr. Sunkara: Thank you. It is though. It’s, yeah, that’s why I started the life coaching business right now. And I want to share this wisdom and you know what I have learned if I could do it, I’m sure everybody can do it.

[00:16:06] Dr. JB: ‘Cause you’re regaining control over the situation, you’re not in the way or your locus of control.

[00:16:15] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah. So yeah, that’s the paradoxical thing, right? Like when we are trying to control the situation, we often look at the circumstance, which is what is wrong with that? What do we do with that? How do we fix the opposite person, opposite thing, the thing that’s causing you the trouble. But instead when you gain a different perspective and look at it with a calm mind, you actually get more creative, your creative part of your brain opens up and you can have more vision on how to do things.

[00:16:51] Dr. JB: So like if we get into more details, like the limbic system that is always in control, and it sounds like to me through life coaching and gave you these tools to really be able to self reflect and self regulate, you’re able to control that part of your brain and allow the prefrontal cortex to really take the lead and your creativity and tap into your solution making self.

[00:17:32] Dr. Sunkara: Higher executive functions like that, yeah that’s residing in your prefrontal cortex. Yes you’re self-regulating and after that only can you get access to it, right? Like to your prefrontal cortex.

[00:17:45] Dr. JB: Yes. But first you have to realize that you were not self-regulating, right? Like you were just acting and that, and that’s so empowering as an, as a person because you realize that you actually do have control over the situation, or you can get control over the situation by getting control over you and your response to the situation.

[00:18:10] Dr. Sunkara: Exactly. So we often are living in a reacting way, right? When something happens and we’re reacting to it, like without thinking. Yeah. So when we are operating in that reactive way, our lower part of the brain, which is your limbic system, which is not the highly evolved part of your brain takes action. It thinks you are in a survival mode and reacts to it. So, yeah.

[00:18:40] Dr. JB: So when you said that you did, so it was the thought, thought journaling?

[00:18:48] Dr. Sunkara: Thought journaling, thought download, yeah.

[00:18:52] Dr. JB: For a month, and you’re about to quit and you kept doing it, then you realized oh, there is some change happening in me. So it sounds like this is something that can be learned.

[00:19:03] Dr. Sunkara: Yes. Yes, absolutely. So it’s the analogy I’ve heard most frequently that’s related to the thought download is like you go to the gym and you lift some weights, right? Like, or you’re running on the treadmill or you’re walking on the treadmill, you don’t lose weight on day one, but even in a month, some people may not lose any weight or develop any muscle but the changes are happening in you at a, at a deeper level that you are not able to quantify. So if you stop the gym after one month, it’s, that’s it. But if you keep going, right, and that’s when you see that your muscles have grown or you’ve lost weight and you have more energy, and these are all the bilateral, like the collateral products, benefits of going to the gym. You have more energy. You’re thinking clearly, you’re, you’re not exhausted. So it’s the same thing with life coaching, is I want to start doing all of that. You, you get this space between your thoughts and yourself, so you realize you’re, these are the thoughts because of your preconditioning or whatever you’ve learned since childhood sometimes, right? It’s, it’s not you. So you get this space between your thoughts and okay, so this is what I’m thinking right now. So what can I do about it, right? So that’s, that’s what gives you the– life coaching is very powerful and transformational, than I can explain.

[00:20:40] Dr. JB: ‘Cause it’s, it’s empowering, you’re not the victim anymore, right? You don’t, you don’t have to feel like you’re a victim and that there’s nothing you can do in this situation.

[00:20:53] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah. Yup. And one of the other things as I have learned after I finished the certification from life coaching, I’ve come across more recently, it’s called PQ coaching. So all of, a lot of us might know about emotional intelligence, right? Emotional intelligence is something that, okay you try to regulate your emotions and have more empathy and compassion for the other person and developing the emotion, that’s called emotional intelligence. But on the other hand, there is another concept called positive intelligence quotient, which is PQ, is positive intelligent quotient. So that is, that’s, I’m actually in the middle of that coaching session. It’s only for coaches, life coaches, to help increase their impact. This is, it’s been a, it’s a coaching container that was created by one of the psychologist, his name is Dr. Shirzad, and to like date, week five of the seven week coaching program and it has been so wonderful. And the PQ coaching is, yeah, it’s hard to explain right now, but like it’s, it’s going to increase our mental fitness in a way that we cannot imagine. Like it’s so, it’s a next level beyond life coaching actually. So it’s been very, very helpful.

[00:22:19] Dr. JB: And it provides you with practical exercises?

[00:22:24] Dr. Sunkara: Right. So a lot of these the tools are in life coaching. Again, the important thing is to be consistent with it, right? So it’s, you have, let’s say you hire a coach and you do it for six weeks. And if you’re not applying those tools, the benefits can go down. So that is, that’s why this PQ coaching is like an addition to life coaching where even after like doing this for seven to eight weeks, that positive effect has been sustainable. It’s even better than life coaching.

[00:22:59] Dr. JB: Oh, wow. That’s awesome.

[00:23:02] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah. Yeah. He is, he’s a phenomenal person. He coached about 500, his coaching has reached about like 500,000 people in 20 different countries and he’s personally coached at least 500 of fortune, you know, hundred company CEO or CFO, CTOs, like all the C-Class people, and yeah.

[00:23:25] Dr. JB: That’s awesome.

[00:23:27] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah. It’s, it’s been very, very, you know I can’t, yeah, it’s, I can’t tell you enough about it. It’s been great.

[00:23:36] Dr. JB: So you, you mentioned the beginning that your emphasis in the coaching world is on addiction. Why did you choose that as an area of specialty?

[00:23:45] Dr. Sunkara: So addiction again, our Western approach to addiction medicine is only treating the symptoms. So a person is addicted to alcohol, you give a medicine that makes him abstain or have the opposite reaction to the alcohol, right? So we’re, we’re giving the medicine so that the craving can go down, but there’s other things in the addiction medicine that’s not being addressed. I mean, although they suggest going to the counseling, there’s the stigma around it. It’s just, is, okay, you’re an addict, you’re an addict. Like it’s, it’s kind of, it’s very disempowering to the patients actually. So it’s now, the most recent research shows that coaching can help addiction people a lot. People are addicted to all these substances because they want to feel a certain way, they want to feel good. Everybody wants to feel good, right? And that’s human. That’s being human. That’s not like being criminal or anything, but addiction, if you, let’s say a person uses cocaine or for possessing the cocaine, he is, it’s stigmatized and he’s sent to the prison and it’s, his life is ruined with that. That’s just, that’s a very negative approach, right? And I think that’s changing slowly and it has changed a lot in Europe where all the addiction people are given access to these tools of more social connection and tools like yoga, meditation, and things like that, which has changed a lot of the prognosis for addiction medicine. So, and also coaching. I feel like I want to start with coaching and help them realize that there’s nothing wrong with you.

[00:25:39] Dr. JB: I think that’s very important to acknowledge that. There’s, first, let’s just start from the very beginning, there’s things wrong with you.

[00:25:49] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah, cause there’s a lot of stigma and now it’s called as post-addiction growth. Post-traumatic growth is what is being emphasized now where it starts with, there’s nothing wrong with you. What has happened, has happened, right? Like how do we create everything normally now? Let’s remove that addiction. Let’s remove that stigma around it.

[00:26:15] Dr. JB: Let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about what’s going on. Let’s bring it to the, to the surface. Let’s bring it to the sunshine and let’s normalize these conversations.

[00:26:25] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s where it starts. Yeah. And the, one of the more very powerful things that I’ve learned and I have already discussed it with one of my patients is, I started what I learned in PQ coaching. I told my patients, right– so I, I tried to combine both of those and I was talking to one of my patient who has porn addiction. So he is, he’s on medication for bipolar disorder, right? And he’s also addicted to porn. So I, what I learned in PQ coaching is that when you’re dealing with your addiction from a point of fear, beating yourself up and thinking that something is wrong with you, your negative part of the brain is activated, right? So, but when you think of yourself as I am a human with flaws and the most important visualization is the, we are also asked to do the same thing, is that look at your picture as a five-year old ,and when you look at the picture of yourself or the other person as a five-year old, everybody is the same, right? So then as a five-year-old, we are pure. We are innocent. We are curious. We are positive. There is, everything is, is amazing. From there, what we will go through as a child, let’s say it’s physical or emotional abuse, or even neglect, even normal childhood sometimes, it can, it can also become not traumatic, but you know, in a negative way where kids are being loved only if they score this grade, you know, they score so much in their grades, right? So they begin to think that something is wrong with them. So I’ll, I tell my patients about this visualization, listen, when you feel like something is wrong with you, just look at your five-year-old picture. And that kind of drops you down to pure love self-love for yourself and the other person. And there is nothing wrong with any of us. Everybody had a great intention, it’s the society and your environment and social factors that has made you today who you are. So that has really helped my addiction patients to like go back and think.

[00:29:03] Dr. JB: You know, I think if we take this conversation back to an earlier portion where you mentioned that here you were primary care physician and you had done everything right, right? And who determines what right actually is?

[00:29:23] Dr. Sunkara: That was me making my own decision. Right? Like I did everything right. What my parents told me, I did. Because, yeah, I mean, whatever they told me, I was a great child.

[00:29:41] Dr. JB: If I asked your parents, are they going to say the same thing? If I say, Hey, was she a great child?

[00:29:52] Dr. Sunkara: As a child, yes. As an adult, probably not. I’m probably always, like they would say that, oh, no, she doesn’t care enough. She’s always thinking what to do next. She doesn’t care what it’s about. That’s what they’ll tell you. I have this hyper achiever kind of, you know, mentality where I’m like, what? How else? More, more, I need more, which I’m trying to stop, but yeah, it’s a work in progress.

[00:30:21] Dr. JB: I understand that we excel, because, us in healthcare, that’s what we do. We’re very much overachievers. We’re very much type A personalities. We’re very much all of this has to be perfect. And if it’s not perfect, then there’s something wrong with me, right? But part of this conversation, we just had where you mentioned, look at that five-year-old picture. That five-year-old is perfect. You as the no longer five-year-old– we won’t say ages– are still perfect.

[00:30:52] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah, it’s hard to connect that. I had– so I’m able to like project that with my patient and talk to them in a very loving way, but when I did that exercise to myself, I feel like then I looked at my current picture and my five-year-old picture, I was like, no, they’re not the same. I initially had trouble, like, because, because when you’re loving yourself from what you, because of what you have achieved, that’s not love at all.

[00:31:22] Dr. JB: Interesting.

[00:31:23] Dr. Sunkara: Right? Yeah. So yeah, that’s, that’s the point of looking at this five-year-old is that, you look at a five-year-old and they don’t have to do anything to be loved. They will be loved the way they are. Right? And that is love. There are no conditions when we look at a five-year-old.

[00:31:44] Dr. JB: So going through the process of learning how to love yourself unconditionally, regardless of the current circumstances or situations, is that learning process that you’re, that you yourself have engaged in and you’re teaching your clients through coaching.

[00:32:07] Dr. Sunkara: Yes. Yep. Absolutely.

[00:32:12] Dr. JB: Because five-year-olds don’t have money. Yeah. They are missing teeth.

[00:32:16] Dr. Sunkara: They don’t have any knowledge. They’re so naive, you could say, yeah, you could say they’re naive. They don’t know anything, but there’s still a hundred percent worthy of love, right? That’s how we have to look at ourself and the other person. Yeah.

[00:32:35] Dr. JB: So what do you think happens throughout life that makes that, that changes that, like, why isn’t that a consistent thing?

[00:32:43] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah. Exercising that love, right? Yeah, for ourselves and the other person. I, I mean, tell me about it. I’m still trying to discover what’s going on, but you base your, all of your validation on these external things, right? That’s how you, in order to grow up as a functioning adults, you have to get through your score, grades in a certain way, get through this certain college, to get through this certain sport, in the best way you can. That’s the conditioning of that society and the pressure of the society placed over us. Look at bill gates, for example, like, we honor, we think money and achievement is what will make us better, but the thing is that we already are the best. That, it’s… and I feel like bringing out that with everybody I encounter is my purpose. Yep. I don’t want to be Bill Gates, I don’t want to be anybody else. I just want to help everybody realize they are perfect just the way they are.

[00:33:56] Dr. JB: Just the way they are.

[00:33:58] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah.

[00:34:01] Dr. JB: So if my audience member wanted to find out more about you, more about your coaching services, how can they do that?

[00:34:10] Dr. Sunkara: I am, I have a website it’s called completewellness.club. It’s a very weird, I didn’t know that can be done, but it’s a completewellness.club, where I list all my services and what I can help anybody with, which includes coaching, which includes the addiction services, primary care services, and all the counseling. And I also, which I haven’t mentioned is that I have learned a lot of aesthetic procedures too, I can do Botox, fillers. [Laughs] I know, so that’s… I’m going to stop at that. I think I’m going to deepen to whatever I’ve learned so far.

[00:34:54] Dr. JB: [Laughs] I was like, that kind of goes opposite to what we just said about you’re perfect just the way, you are with a little Botox in your lip right here.

[00:35:10] Dr. Sunkara: If you want to, there’s no stigma to it. If you want it, get it. If you don’t want it, that’s fine. That’s so funny. That’s hilarious. Right? That’s my contradicting brain. You just need just a little bit of that, but you’re still perfect. Oh, that’s funny,

[00:35:47] Dr. JB: Just a touch, you know, like there’s perfect, then there’s perfect. So like, which one do you want to be? So, both of them are perfect.

[00:35:55] Dr. Sunkara: Exactly, yeah.

[00:35:57] Dr. JB: In closing, do you have any pearls of wisdom that you would like to leave my audience?

[00:36:04] Dr. Sunkara: Yeah, I think I just, I feel like everybody’s journey is different, right? So just the most powerful visualization I had is go back to your five-year-old self and ask them, even though you think that they are only five-year-old, dropping into that pure love will give you all the answers. So that’s, that’s one of the things that I have been practicing a lot. And be grateful for everything that you have achieved.

[00:36:37] Dr. JB: Yeah. Who says a doc can’t rap? D O C T O R J B. The greatest doctor to ever touch the mic. The greatest podcast ever broadcasted or prerecorded. Come learn some. Each one, teach one. I’m done.